Makes you wonder where it all really went......seems to me that it is a constant tug of war with an ever growing rope with many ends......as the world economies grow closer together, the more problems will arise from it.
That's just it D6fer. I didn't actually go anywhere, it never existed to begin with. That's the key to this whole thing is that money is fake. It always has been even when it was backed by gold because gold (especially before we had electronics that could us it) was only worth something because it was scarce and difficult to duplicate.
I don't really see it as tug of war. I see it as a confidence game. It's you, me and reck holding hands and leaning back. The farther we lean the more we get but just because of how gravity works I can lean back if you two don't. Right now everybody's terrified to lean back and we can't grow until everybody just says fuck it and leans back. Or until someone discovers a better way to bank.
On a side note this is a large part of the problem in Greece right now. In America when the government wants 10 billion dollars it calls up the fed, 10 billion dollars appear. Banks then get that money and make loans and while it sometimes sucks it still works. Greece however is on the Euro and can't print their way out of the shit hole their in. It's the same problem the states have with their budgets, once you give up your ability to print currency you have to balance your budget.
The problem is, there still has to be some value brought to the table in means of production.....that's why all the give aways are killing the economy......money for nothing will only work if enough people are willing to work.
@ALIENated: China is getting no where near wise to that. Lets start with the fact that they don't actually own tha much US debt in the grand scheme of things. If you can find a better source fine but by every measure I can find we don't owe China very much at all by any measure It's a scare tactic used to keep uninformed cattle in line. We can debate over givng this or that away later. The price of socialism in America to date has been the internet, the space program and thus the cell phone market, the highway system and all the businesses set up at the off ramps, oh and nuclear power or you know the main power sources in the world. No point of which have you, D6fer or anybody else debated. The closest you've come is that was then and this is now.
@D6fer: Value is difficult to define. Are we defining value as something you can eat or use? Or are we defining value as anything anybody wants? It's an important distinction because I can get a cheese burger (actual "value") for 99 cents. I can get a shirt for 10 bucks and and a tent for 25 bucks. However a story about a strong man with laser eyes is worth over a million dollars.
Neither one of you are debating that the video is wrong. Which honestly you need to if you want to continue bitching about the government just printing money while not condemning the banks for creating many times the amount of money the government does. It's capitalism or at least capitalist banking that creates shit tons of money out of thin air NOT THE FUCK MOTHERING GOVERNMENT. Make your case or abandon your claim. As for people willing to work I haven't heard any arguments that farming is profitable because it han' been for close to a century. It certainly isn't available shelter not when we're out a half billion dollars paying for what high quality squatters would do for damn near for free and it's not a lack of clothing.
Which doesn't even begin to cover what I keep bringing up and you both keep avoiding. The amount of work in the world is decreasing day by day and the amount of wealth is increasing. It's just reality.
This is why people need to invest. If you only consume it will not end well.
Invest in what? The worth of everything is imaginary. Gold? It's no less crazy than dollars. Food? People can and did grow it in their back yards until recently. Tech? That might have worked but right now tech is the Cloud. And that doesn't begin to cover how people are supposed to start. Like seriously what is step one in this plan?
If machines replace us all, then we want to own the machines right?
I guess but do you really want to invest in companies or technologies? There is a difference here and this kinda comes back to your earlier question of do you want to be beholden to the man who invented the wheel or do you want a government question.
For the record I'm not all doom and gloom about this subject. I just think it's important that people understand that the reason why every one and every nation are in debt at the same time is because a good chunk of the money that we were operating under the belief that it was real and backed by something was never backed by anything. It never was.