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The Iranian Threat And Obama

The Iranian threat. It seems the country of Iran either thinking the United States and Israel are stupid or know Obama is weakened are touting their nuclear program. What has perplexed me about this situation is the war has begun.

Iran seems to be enriching uranium and expanding their nuclear program without disclosing specific details. Iran is a radical Muslim country whose present leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a horrible anti-Semite on the same level has Adolf Hitler. Iran fails to recognize Israel's right to exist and constantly bangs the war drums.

Iran is one of the largest producers of gas and oil and claim their nuclear programs are for peaceful purposes and refuse to allow access of their sites to the world. They threaten to close the straight of Hormuz which is a 34 mile wide strait that opens petroleum routes from the Persian gulf to the Arabian sea and eventually the world.

Hezbollah is a terrorist group supported by Iran and based in Lebanon. Their numbers have grown to the point they now have positions in the Lebanese government.

Recently several assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists along with the Stuxnet computer worm that someone (creators unknown) injected into Iran's nuclear program shows that someone is concerned about Iran and the conflict has now escalated. Within the last week suicide bombers identified as Iranians have hit India and Bankok targeting Israeli interests.

I think Iran knows Obama is not going to do a single thing as far as going to war with them or deterring their nuclear program. The straights of Hormuz threat is a lot of hot air because the U.S. navy that is patrolling in that area would overwhelm anything the Iranians have to offer. Where there is a huge problem is Israel has loss confidence in Obama and will show no restraint when it comes down to waging war with Iran. We don't know if the assassinations and computer virus were from Israel but it seems likely.

All of this could seriously help Obama, but at the same time it could drastically hurt him. First problem is gas prices. Right now 20% of the worlds oil comes through the strait of Hormuz so this situation doesn't help gas prices. Higher gas prices could make the recovery fall flat and the fact that Obama is a global warming follower doesn't help. Second is Israel. If or when Israel attacks Iran what are all the other Muslim countries going to do? With Hezbollah in Lebanon, Syria slipping into a civil war, Egypt has the Muslim brotherhood, and Iraq a budding but unstable country still recovering from the war, it is a powder keg over there.

I think Obama needs to get a hold of the Iranians and reassure them that if push comes to shove we will not hesitate to send them back to the stone age. The Iranians know Obama is another Jimmy Carter and know they can push his buttons. Obama could use his ability to communicate and relay to Iran and the world that the United States will not be pushed and kindness is not weakness.

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outlander said over 2 years ago ...

Sean-Your second paragraph is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Iran all ready has nuclear power plants they just keep them secret and claim they are peaceful. Do we have a reason to not trust a country like Iran?

Grape you lost me. This is not about imposing anyones will or religion on anyone. People in this world have a God given right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and when one group of people declares another group of people is not worthy of life I say that is wrong. These radical Islamists will not even recognize Israels right to exist. How do we start any kind of dialogue when that is hanging out there?

sean_renaud said over 2 years ago ...

I've seen no documentation that Iran has nuclear power plants and it's kinda difficult to keep that sort of thing secret. Besides if they already have them giving them one more won't upset anything. So it's still made of solid win.

grapekoolaid said over 2 years ago ...

Ah but it is. It's about bringing about the apocalypse and the battle at Mt. Meggido (or whatever), and the armageddon. War with Iran seems to be tied in with all this, though I'm not too clear on what or how that might be.

What exactly is the difference between not recognizing Israel(Iran) and recognizing Palestine(US)?

Also, please answer my previous question: Saving the Jews vs. saving the Coptic Christians. Which do you choose?

outlander said over 2 years ago ...

The US recognizes everyone's right to exist and this not about saving the Jews. The Muslim anti-Semetic bullshit is mainly a prejudice against all that are not Muslim they just have particular reasons (bad ones) to hate Jews. Do you think if these radicals wipe out all the Jews in the middle east they will stop there?

Answering your stupid question I am for saving everyone and everyone living together in harmony.

sean_renaud said over 2 years ago ...

This Muslim anti-semetic bullshit is a relatively recent occurance. And yes if they wiped out all the Jews they'd likely calm down a great deal. Even more so if they redrew the country lines.

grapekoolaid said over 2 years ago ...

"Do you think if these radicals wipe out all the Jews in the middle east they will stop there?"

Clearly not, because they're thumping the shit out of the Christians in Egypt and Iraq.

Newt says the Palestinians are an invented people. source

Santorum says, "What Palestinians?" source

So clearly, your statement that the US recognizes everyone's right to exist is blatantly false. We clearly play favorites.

Nice answer to a question I didn't ask. That dodge wasn't even all that clever. I wish I lived in your polyanna world. Everyone living together in harmony except for those trouble making atheists and racists, right? :p

Seriously. Answer my question. This really could be a foreign policy question that can be enacted based on your particular faith. As a Christian, do you support the protection of Coptic Christians, or do you support the protection of the Jews? (I understand that they are not mutually exclusive, but when Israel is bombing Lebanon, it does become an issue, dunnit?)

outlander said over 2 years ago ...

Both Gingrich and Santorum are right. It is not Paliestinian land. Plus why can't they share the land? There are a lot of Arabs that live in Israel. And wow you are intellectually dishonest. Gingrich and Santorum have never said that a group of people had no right to exist on the same level as these Arabs claiming Israel's only right is to die. You are sad to make such and accusation. Atheists don't want to live in harmony they want everyone to be miserable because they are miserable. What other explanation is there?

"Seriously. Answer my question. This really could be a foreign policy question that can be enacted based on your particular faith. As a Christian, do you support the protection of Coptic Christians, or do you support the protection of the Jews? (I understand that they are not mutually exclusive, but when Israel is bombing Lebanon, it does become an issue, dunnit?)"

What is this? Just make your point and stop asking stupid leading questions.

What

grapekoolaid said over 2 years ago ...

"Both Gingrich and Santorum are right."

That's your problem right there. And you wonder why the stupid burns? It is not by the grace of god that the Jews have Israel. It's by the grace of the British and the Balfour declaration. Please read up on your history. Intellectually dishonest? That's a laugh. I just call it how I see it. If you see any dishonesty, it's the US foreign policy, not mine. You can't possibly sit there and tell me that we've been consistent in our foreign policy. The only manner in which we've been consistent is our blind support of Israel and in terms of resource acquisition.

"Atheists don't want to live in harmony they want everyone to be miserable because they are miserable. What other explanation is there?"

This is a very narrow minded view. Way to pigeonhole and generalize. I could just as easily say that the faithful are a bunch of cowards who use religion as a crutch and an excuse to be intolerable dickwads, but I don't because that's not true. I could also very easily say that the faithful are scared bunch of pussies that refuse to look at the world at face value and need to be coerced into being good by an invisible boss at the threat of eternal shame and damnation but we both know that's not true either.

Fuckin bigot.

The point that I'm trying to make with my question (which you failed to answer again, btw) is that the religious right in this country is willing to (and already have) turn a blind eye to the plight of the Christians in the Middle East at the behest of Israel. It makes no sense. There's a cognitive dissonance there. If you want your religion to dictate policies both domestic and foreign, at least be consistent.

outlander said over 2 years ago ...

Why do we support Israel? Because it is either support Israel or support a bunch of animals. And how many times has the US brought Israel and Palistines to the peace table? They don't want peace they want Israel dead. This is why all this needs to stop and this war needs to be had.

sean_renaud said over 2 years ago ...

Isreal doesn't want peace either. And it's not either support Isreal or support a bunch of animals. We could always just walk away and ignore the situation all together.

The only reasons we back Isreal is equal parts you can't leave an alliance when you want to (though considering the US military that rule might not apply to us), religion and needing strategic locations to launch attacks on the Middle East.

grapekoolaid said over 2 years ago ...

"Why do we support Israel? "

Damn food question. It's a question that I've posed many times without getting an answer that is satisfactory.

"Because it is either support Israel or support a bunch of animals. "

Nice. Fuckin bigot. The support is not mutually exclusive. We support the Saudis, we supported Mubarak in Egypt, we supported Assad in Syria, etc. We even supported Saddam in Iraq for twenty years before he outlived his usefulness. Good thing you're not in charge of this country's foreign policies. I'm sure the royal house of Saud wouldn't appreciate being called an animal.

"And how many times has the US brought Israel and Palistines to the peace table?"

And how many times has that peace process been thwarted by Israel's policy of expansion? Recognition of East Jerusalem? A shared capital? We don't get to complain about Palestinians electing Hamas after clamoring for democracy for so long. There's dirt on both sides. No one is squeaky clean in that region.

"They don't want peace they want Israel dead."

And with good reason, too. If you're denied the right of return, live in an apartheid state as a second class citizens and your homeland sold piecemeal to a hostile neighbor with a superiority complex, I daresay that their protest and animosity is justifiable.

"This is why all this needs to stop and this war needs to be had."

Ever the chickenhawk and a mouthpiece for the defense industry. The thing that worries me is that you're so cavalier to throw American lives at risk at the behest of a sketchy ally (who spies on us) at best.

grapekoolaid said over 2 years ago ...

meant good question, not food question.

outlander said over 2 years ago ...

Grape-I know the historical context of the Israeli/Palistinian question and I would do anything as small as making a deal with supposed terrorists right to dropping a fucking nuke if it means ending this conflct. How many spattered bodies on the sides of cafe walls after a suicide bomber, how many school children have to be snuffed out before the world determines what we are doing isn't working. I don't think anyone is purposely turning a blind eye to Christian persecution, this is pretty much a given if you are Christian in a radically Muslim country.

"Nice. Fuckin bigot. The support is not mutually exclusive. We support the Saudis, we supported Mubarak in Egypt, we supported Assad in Syria, etc. We even supported Saddam in Iraq for twenty years before he outlived his usefulness. Good thing you're not in charge of this country's foreign policies. I'm sure the royal house of Saud wouldn't appreciate being called an animal."

Let review our history, not in the too distant past Israel handed the Gaza strip over to the Palistinians and what happened? They started launching missles back into Israel and now nothing can get done and the country is isolated. Suicide bombers? Parking missle sites next to schools so Israel will launch missles hitting the schools? Using special needs people to unknowingly carry out bombing missions? And constant, endless rhetoric of "death to Israel" "Israel is a stinking corpse." No, it is not a hard case to make. And we have made it worse by trying to do business with people like the Saudis.

"And with good reason, too. If you're denied the right of return, live in an apartheid state as a second class citizens and your homeland sold piecemeal to a hostile neighbor with a superiority complex, I daresay that their protest and animosity is justifiable."

Bullshit and you know it. Does this mean Israel gets to send suicide bombers around the world? There is no justification for what these radicals are doing. What could Israel do if they really wanted to hurt these people? I think even up to now they have showed restraint.

Years and years and years the talk of peace and one side starts the attack the other responds then the liberals jump in the middle with stupid slogans and platitudes and the battle is post-poned. Now the bad guys are groing in numbers and double and tripling. What do you think is going to be the end result?

reckoner said over 2 years ago ...

why no mention of the illegal settlements and construction of new illegal settlements?

grapekoolaid said over 2 years ago ...

So Innocent...

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outlander commented 17 minutes ago on
preparing for the long haul
Wombat- excellent point, I think we need to define who is civilized and who is not. Liberals with moral relativism think everyone is uncivilized. Is there a reason the greatest war in history only lasted six years? Because we didn't try to soften read the rest
outlander commented 26 minutes ago on
preparing for the long haul
Reck- totally irrelevant because like a said there is a huge difference between taking Saddam down and securing the country. Everyone knew the first would be easy and the latter was going to be a long haul. Alien- my take on the Middle East is all read the rest
outlander commented 1 day ago on
preparing for the long haul
No war has ever been sold easy and cheap and just the premise of that is ridiculous. There are plenty of things to bitch about in regards to the Iraq war and this is not one of them. You guys just want to push this to make Republicans look bad when the read the rest
outlander commented 1 day ago on
Caught in a trap
Saddam usually got over 99% of the vote in a country where in a café if you said out loud "I don't like our president" would get you tortured and murdered. Saddam had a whole host of chemical weapons facilities where he manufactured some of the most read the rest
outlander commented 1 day ago on
preparing for the long haul
"I remember when all the neocons said we could invade Iraq, topple sad dam, install a democratic government and it would all take weeks not months and pay for itself." Ok this is what you said. Your links don't even come close to that so you might as read the rest
outlander commented 2 days ago on
preparing for the long haul
How about a citation of that comment read the rest
outlander commented 3 days ago on
preparing for the long haul
After all the conflicts why can't you guys understand that you cannot soften war. If Obama ordered his generals to hunt down and slaughter any and all people who identify themselves as the Islamic State then secured the Iraqi border while putting in a read the rest
outlander commented 3 days ago on
State Of The Union
Great post and no I don't think we are Rome I just think we are doomed to repeat the Carter years, add four years though. I keep harping on what I beleive is the fly in the ointment in this country and that is the media. Look at how the media read the rest
outlander commented 3 days ago on
Lefts political network exposed
I don't know why but I just don't get worked up over this. For every leftwing org out there, there is probably the republican equivalent. Money in politics is not the enemy, the enemy is media bias. We shouldn't take our eyes of the fact the left in read the rest
outlander commented 4 days ago on
Caught in a trap
ISIS has seized large sections of property, money, and has grown from nobody to well over 30,000 strong. Do you honestly think at some point they won't be able to hurt us and don't you think it is better to stop them now before they have a country with read the rest