They see this ideologically, i.e. not politically

"They see this ideologically, i.e. not politically. But the political facts are these. Federal tax revenues are at a 50-year low; marginal rates are lower for many than they were when Reagan was president. In a divided government, any achievement requires some sacrifice from both sides. And yet the GOP is insisting that its side offers no sacrifice, even as the other party controls the Senate and the White House. Their own party, moreover, contributed dramatically to the debt we now face. And there is no clear evidence that raising revenues will lead to economic decline. Ronald Reagan's tax hike to deal with a much smaller debt in 1982, as Bruce Bartlett shows, preceded a burst in growth. The tough budget calls, including tax hikes, of GHW Bush and Bill Clinton led the way to economic growth far outpassing that after George W. Bush's bankrupting tax cut.

The notion that no revenues can be raised in the current crisis is, quite simply, nuts."

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reckoner said over 3 years ago ...

"Most of our debt came from non war spending after Obama got the credit card."

Nope. It's rather surprising to see where it came from. Wow, Reagan and Bush.

reckoner said over 3 years ago ...

with obama

d6fer said over 3 years ago ...

Obama Added More to National Debt in First 19 Months Than All Presidents from Washington Through Reagan Combined, Says Gov’t Data source

sean_renaud said over 3 years ago ...

Just stop and think for a moment D6. Does the claim you're making even sound possible to you? Forget plausible does it even sound possible or do you think some very interesting data was punched into the system to come up with an answer that looks like that?

reckoner said over 3 years ago ...

And Bush of course did the same.

This shows the sort of blinders that many have. The first year of Obama was pretty much a continuation of the Bush policies. We had two wars, a failed economy, and the Bush tax cuts. That alone accounts for most of the problem. The only thing Obama did in this time was the bailout. This of course is exactly what Bush did as well. And very few honest and sane people believe we should have let the banks fail.

So I'm not really sure what d6 is getting at. That Bush left a giant mess? That we should have let the banks fail and probably gone into another great depression? Or is it just a meaningless way to score political points. You know, gotcha politics.

sean_renaud said over 3 years ago ...

Except neither did that. For what reason would we start measuring all the debt acculmilated over two hundred plus years from a low point? It seems the debt was higher under Roosevelt/Truman than it is now. Why is that arbitrarily not called debt for the sake of this argument? Sure we were well on way to paying it back but unless the claim is being made here that Reagan and the Bush's and Obama each spent more than the combined and that Clinton through slick willy magic managed to spend less than any president the statement itself is based on at best interesting cherry picking of facts.

"At the end of fiscal year 1989, which ended eight months after President Reagan left office, the total federal debt held by the public was $2.1907 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That means all U.S. presidents from George Washington through Ronald Reagan had accumulated only that much publicly held debt on behalf of American taxpayers."

The previous statement is simply false. It's like claiming that if your parents buy a house and spend thirty years paying down the mortgage until the house is paid for and you add a garage door that you've increased the debt more than any of the previous owners. You did no such thing in real terms. That's the other thing that people never seem to bring up. We were deeper in the hole than this in the past and had Reagan simply left things as they were we would probably have eliminated the debt entirely, more to the point it took just forty years. So we're only passing this debt to our grandchildren if A you're so damn old your grandkids are already part of the situation or damn near or B if we consciously choose to pass the buck. No reason why we can't pay down our debt like our Grandparents did.

There's also the troublesome fact that the 2009 budget was a Bush Budget not an Obama one. So 9 months of much of that spending (including TARP) wasn't actually Obama.

reckoner said over 3 years ago ...

yup, it's Bush's legacy.

"O'Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter," he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: "We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due." A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired."

Also, if we want to be honest we should look at it as a percentage of GDP.

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reckoner commented about 13 hours ago on
It doesn't exist you say?
"Can we solve the fucking voter fraud issu" There is no significant voter fraud. Let me ask both of you a simple question. If a law prevents more legitimate people from voting than it prevents fraud cases, which shouldn't implement it, read the rest
reckoner commented about 13 hours ago on
So when are you liberals going to admit I was right?
"This business was there long before this law changed." And they said on their website that they performed services for people that don't follow their particular religion. " Refusing to provide a service to people based on the color of their skin read the rest
reckoner commented about 13 hours ago on
Christmas coming early in Ferguson
It's possible that this had nothing to do with race, but there is a problem of systemic racism, which will always cloud incidents like this. Your inability to admit as much makes it read the rest
reckoner commented about 13 hours ago on
Cowardly Leftwingers Can't Admit They Fucked Up
There were no WMD that were a threat to America. That is my claim, and it's read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
Christmas coming early in Ferguson
so bully's should be shot by cops? read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
Pediophiles are Normal
actually, most mental disorders probably are read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
Cowardly Leftwingers Can't Admit They Fucked Up
There is far more evidence and proof of evolution and climate change than evidence for Iraq trying to get uranium. There is no evidence of that. The war in Iraq was a colossal mistake. It cost trillions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives, read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
It doesn't exist you say?
you're dodging the issue at hand. Republicans are pushing hard for voter restriction laws, when there is no evidence of significant fraud, because preventing poor minorities from voting will help them win. That is the only rational explanation of what we read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
So when are you liberals going to admit I was right?
what is the line here? Can this place refuse to do interracial marriage because of a religious belief? Can a restaurant refuse service to black people on religious grounds? This idea that a business can avoid laws and regulations by claiming a read the rest
reckoner commented 2 days ago on
Cowardly Leftwingers Can't Admit They Fucked Up
"The British Butler report found the yellow cake claim to be true" No it didn't. It said something remarkably stupid. It said "an Iraqi diplomat visited Niger, and almost three-quarters of Niger's exports were uranium, therefore the reports are read the rest