Yakkstr

They see this ideologically, i.e. not politically

"They see this ideologically, i.e. not politically. But the political facts are these. Federal tax revenues are at a 50-year low; marginal rates are lower for many than they were when Reagan was president. In a divided government, any achievement requires some sacrifice from both sides. And yet the GOP is insisting that its side offers no sacrifice, even as the other party controls the Senate and the White House. Their own party, moreover, contributed dramatically to the debt we now face. And there is no clear evidence that raising revenues will lead to economic decline. Ronald Reagan's tax hike to deal with a much smaller debt in 1982, as Bruce Bartlett shows, preceded a burst in growth. The tough budget calls, including tax hikes, of GHW Bush and Bill Clinton led the way to economic growth far outpassing that after George W. Bush's bankrupting tax cut.

The notion that no revenues can be raised in the current crisis is, quite simply, nuts."

read the rest

report |
reckoner said about 3 years ago ...

"Most of our debt came from non war spending after Obama got the credit card."

Nope. It's rather surprising to see where it came from. Wow, Reagan and Bush.

reckoner said about 3 years ago ...

with obama

d6fer said about 3 years ago ...

Obama Added More to National Debt in First 19 Months Than All Presidents from Washington Through Reagan Combined, Says Gov’t Data source

sean_renaud said about 3 years ago ...

Just stop and think for a moment D6. Does the claim you're making even sound possible to you? Forget plausible does it even sound possible or do you think some very interesting data was punched into the system to come up with an answer that looks like that?

reckoner said about 3 years ago ...

And Bush of course did the same.

This shows the sort of blinders that many have. The first year of Obama was pretty much a continuation of the Bush policies. We had two wars, a failed economy, and the Bush tax cuts. That alone accounts for most of the problem. The only thing Obama did in this time was the bailout. This of course is exactly what Bush did as well. And very few honest and sane people believe we should have let the banks fail.

So I'm not really sure what d6 is getting at. That Bush left a giant mess? That we should have let the banks fail and probably gone into another great depression? Or is it just a meaningless way to score political points. You know, gotcha politics.

sean_renaud said about 3 years ago ...

Except neither did that. For what reason would we start measuring all the debt acculmilated over two hundred plus years from a low point? It seems the debt was higher under Roosevelt/Truman than it is now. Why is that arbitrarily not called debt for the sake of this argument? Sure we were well on way to paying it back but unless the claim is being made here that Reagan and the Bush's and Obama each spent more than the combined and that Clinton through slick willy magic managed to spend less than any president the statement itself is based on at best interesting cherry picking of facts.

"At the end of fiscal year 1989, which ended eight months after President Reagan left office, the total federal debt held by the public was $2.1907 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That means all U.S. presidents from George Washington through Ronald Reagan had accumulated only that much publicly held debt on behalf of American taxpayers."

The previous statement is simply false. It's like claiming that if your parents buy a house and spend thirty years paying down the mortgage until the house is paid for and you add a garage door that you've increased the debt more than any of the previous owners. You did no such thing in real terms. That's the other thing that people never seem to bring up. We were deeper in the hole than this in the past and had Reagan simply left things as they were we would probably have eliminated the debt entirely, more to the point it took just forty years. So we're only passing this debt to our grandchildren if A you're so damn old your grandkids are already part of the situation or damn near or B if we consciously choose to pass the buck. No reason why we can't pay down our debt like our Grandparents did.

There's also the troublesome fact that the 2009 budget was a Bush Budget not an Obama one. So 9 months of much of that spending (including TARP) wasn't actually Obama.

reckoner said about 3 years ago ...

yup, it's Bush's legacy.

"O'Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter," he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: "We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due." A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired."

Also, if we want to be honest we should look at it as a percentage of GDP.

Join our friendly Yakkstr community in 1 Easy Step
  • Meet Like Minded People
  • Share your thoughts with others who share your interests
  • No assholes to deal with, we keep them out
Join Now by writing your first comment below


Related Posts
Religious Nutter
Shirley Phelps-Roper
2 comments
last by superbozo over 3 years ago
The problem with politics in this country
d6fer said, "liberalism begets degenerate behavior."
6 comments
last by sean_renaud about 3 years ago
The Things I Should Not Do -- I Do
I think it was Paul who said, somewhere in the New Testament, that he did the things he should not do and did not do the things he should do. That is the very definition of our government today. Thanks to Liberals / Democrats / Socialists (like
19 comments Last Page
last by sean_renaud almost 3 years ago
I am not lost
I am here, just not
9 comments
last by quietone about 4 years ago
Pissed
I am so pissed at this woman I though was my friend! I cannot believe this is happening.
4 comments
last by zsuzsio over 3 years ago

Remember me

New? Sign up here.
reckoner commented about 4 hours ago on
How can we ever show respect?
the craziest part is if they really want to undermine Sharpton they are going about it all wrong. There is a real problem with institutional racism, black people are treated differently. Black people know this, and all smart people should know this. read the rest
reckoner commented about 10 hours ago on
How can we ever show respect?
I'm waiting to see what the federal investigators say. So you are saying that people have no reason to be frustrated with the way the police have treated read the rest
reckoner commented about 11 hours ago on
How can we ever show respect?
It's relevant as the source of people's frustration and anger. It's the cause if legitimate protests, and do far the worst liars seem to be the read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
How can we ever show respect?
Do you believe that black people have a different experience with police than whites, in general, and that maybe their reaction to this kid getting killed is a reflection of that unequal read the rest
reckoner commented 1 day ago on
Sean and Reck, lol..Co2 Is Not a Pollutant
I'm a scientists, according to outlanders definition, so you should take my word. This argument is rather dishonest, and revolved around how we define "pollutant". How we define pollution doesn't change the fact that CO2 is causing global warming, read the rest
reckoner commented 2 days ago on
What I Did After Police Killed My Son
alien has flawless logic, read the rest
reckoner commented 2 days ago on
Petition Project Destroys Consensus On Global Warming
Pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change. Global warming is an adverse read the rest
reckoner commented 3 days ago on
Petition Project Destroys Consensus On Global Warming
I am a scientist, you are not. The consensus is read the rest
reckoner commented 3 days ago on
Petition Project Destroys Consensus On Global Warming
Let's put together a list of climatologists and what they believe. I'm sure it will support what sean and I are read the rest
reckoner commented 3 days ago on
Petition Project Destroys Consensus On Global Warming
these people are not scientists, full stop. Unless you want to admit that I am a scientist and more qualified to discuss this than you read the rest